The Best of Email Party

Please bear with me. There was a lot of nuts in only a few days, and it's going to be hard to compress. I have the groups page open in one tab, so maybe I can make this lulzy.

This started quite a while back. Lynn had a falling out with Weev and Claudia, or just Weev, I don't remember, on EP. She asked me to remove her.

I vaguely remember thinking that she was being a bit unreasonable. And taking things a bit too personally, after all, it was WEEV we ere talking about. Then again, it was WEEV we were talking about. She should know better.

I told her I would put her on digest. Exact quote: me: Hey I put you on digest. Let me know if you want off, or back on, or on without even digest

So, eventually, when I was cleaning EP house, and realized Lynn wasn't coming back, I removed her. All was well.

Lynn and I weren't talking a lot, because all of her LJ posts are about Manga storage, J-Pop, and video games.

Eventually we found a really good way to communicate, we were both on twitter, and started talking a lot on there.

Then one day, seemingly out of nowhere (btw), she tweets this:

@marykae btw, the reason I stopped hanging out is because thats what I always do to people. I have energy, and then I get lazy and just stop 01:18 PM September 16, 2008 from web in reply to marykae

Which brought this from me:

@natsukigirl Maybe you should go to Rose's Halloween party when I am in town. 02:26 PM September 16, 2008 from Twitter Line in reply to natsukigirl
@natsukigirl a bunch of EP will be there, they can lure you back in. 02:26 PM September 16, 2008 from Twitter Line in reply to natsukigirl

And then, from Lynn:

@ rose also, r u having a halloween party? I have not met you yet, and would like to. Plus I am actually dressing up this year lol 10:26 AM September 29, 2008 from web rose

From Me:

@ rose @natsukigirl needs to come back to EP, shoudl I add her without waiting for her permission? 10:30 AM September 29, 2008 from Twitter Line rose

Lynn's answer?

@marykae lol yes 10:48 AM September 29, 2008 from web in reply to marykae

So I added her back.

Then the EP storm starts.

Claudia posts a link to a story, and says "who do you think is at fault?"

There is some conversation, people stating opinions, etc. But then....

Cari mentions sleep aids for children on a plane, and Lynn states her opinion, which is totally ok and fine.

Lynn:

I'm not a fan of drugging children to make them behave. I'm not criticizing either of you, I just personally would never do that and it's kind of a problem for me personally because I was given ritalin for school all the time and it was a horrible experience. If they actually needed it for motion sickness, then sure... but not as a means to make them sleepy. I was ADHD like mad when I was a kid, before my mother knew this and drgged me with ritalin, she would figure out the things I cared about most and warned me of having them taken away if I didn't behave. I then got to decide if it was worth the consequences to act out. This worked out well enough, but when she discovered ritalin she just drugged me... and as I said, I'm not a fan.

Cari:

Have you dealt with autism? Totally different ballgame. Talking and reminding them isn't going to do a damn bit of good when they're freaking out over such a huge change in their daily routine.

(she wrote more, but this is the important part)

Lynn:

You are being defensive for some reason? There's a reason I said I WASN'T criticizing you and that my feelings were PERSONAL. You seemed to have skipped over my words and came up with the idea that I have some sort of caring or assumption to make about you. I don't, and made that very clear with my choice of words. I'm a bit annoyed with being treated as if I've just challenged you when I haven't.

Cari:

Honestly? I didn't feel like I was being critisized by you. I'm sorry I made you feel that way. I just wanted to explain to you the difference between how *I* approach medicating as opposed to how a lot of other parents do.

In the midst of this, Sasha shares an opinion:

I think there's a big difference between a daily routine of ritalin
and giving Dramamine for a one-time or a few rare occassions.

Lynn:
No, there's not a big difference in "controlling a child with drugs" and "controlling a child with drugs."
But naturally you're free to have your own opinions about it, just as I do.

Sasha:

yup, we are both free to have our opinions. hence why i said "I think"

i also didn't think Cari was being defensive. just explaing her situation and opinions since it is relevant to this thread.

Lynn (who loves a challenge):

99% of the time, when someone offers a rhetorical question such as "Have you dealt with autism?" it sounds defensive and challenging to me.

THEN LYNN TELLS BIG LIE

Also, I'm going bow out for the rest of this convo, since drugging children is a topic that bothers me, and I seem to be the only very active participant who seems to have a problem with it. So there you go, problem solved.

Cari:
The true decision to medicate should be based on the safety and quality of life for the child only

Lynn (clearly back in it):
No one is disagreeing with NECESSARY medication. That's a huge DUH right there.

Cari:
I am really trying to NOT be a bitch, but why do you have to take every statement I make and be shitty about it? I am simply having a discussion here,j citing examples of my personal experiences. Everyone else seems to get it, why can't you?

Lynn:

I'm being shitty because I'm annoyed when people attempt to put words in my mouth.

Me:
this is officially the dumbest thread in email party

And that was pretty much it for that thread.

That was Wednesday. The day I started getting sick, btw (maybe my sickness was a manifestation of the DRAMA).

Ok! I am pretty sure Thursday was peaceful, but Friday when I was home sick, Lynn caused yet ANOTHER shitstorm when she mentions being anti-feminist, and later admits it is just a ploy to get people to ask her her real views, as if anyone really cares.

There was a jokey conversation going on with Weev about how a member would have his babies.

Weev:
okay but you'll have to take my load in a turkey baster

Lynn:
smart man

Scott:
i hope that wasn't a diss ... we don't do disses here in EP. :(

Lynn:
Sorry if I'm confused, but how the hell could that be seen as a diss?
I'm anti-feminist, I was honestly praising this idea of signing something.

Weev:
You're anti-feminist? This intrigues me, please elaborate.

Lynn:
I feel like this has the potential to turn into a long convo and I'm at work at the moment, lol.

But I guess the basic point would be anti-feminism is the realization that currently folks in the "Feminist movement" (or whatever it's being called) are no longer searching for equality or standards for women in relation to men. The original goal was met a long time ago, and now it's become a problem. Now women want MORE than men.

A small portion of some basic things I don't like:

- Men don't have a say in abortion
- Men are stigmatized as being the aggressors by law enforcement
- The public ignoring that boys are victims of gender roles just as much as girls in schools/media
- Men are less trusted than women in public areas
- Men are less trusted to babysit, and do other childcare activities because of social stigma
- Misogyny is socially unacceptable, misandry is. WHY?

I also I just plain don't like the company of other females (obviously I have female friends who I love and get along with, but I mean in general I tend not to want to associate nor do I enjoy doing business with them). P.S. I'm not a big door holder... but when I do I usually hold doors for men, and they always thank me. Most women won't even look over when you hold the door for them (I've been holding doors for women less lately because of that).

I have to get back to business now, so I am sure I left out something important, and this view is not my complete and polished view. So just give me a little benifit of the doubt and ask me specific questions if something strikes you as off because I very well may have said it wrong and will need to revise, explain, or expound.

Weev:

- Men don't have a say in abortion

So would you like a potential father to be able to force an unwilling mother to have his child?

Claudia:
I think you got things a bit mixed up Lynn. A more proper way would to be say you don't like to identify with feminist, because you don't agree with all of their ideals or don't think they full represent you. Saying you're anti-feminist is a completely different thing and comes off very poorly.
I think you've been hit by the "women are stupid whores" campaign that the media puts out. I've met lots of feminist that are really reasonable women and you'd get along with. But the media only likes portraying the worse people (which happen to be a very small percent) of each minority. Your judgment of feminist is the same judgment that a rural child would get if the only interaction they had with black people were by watching MTV. That child would grow up think all black men are criminals and rapist, while all black women are stupid whores. But of course the majority of black people do not fit this portrayal the media has used to represent them.

Saying that the feminist movement doesn't recognize how gender roles affect boys, is a bunch of bullshit. Almost any gender studies class you go to will address how the gender roles enforced on boys are just as bad to boys and girls. Male gender roles stop men from becoming children take cares (so that successful women can keep their careers while men stay at home and take care of the children - because some men like that). And that one of the problems of violence against women (and people in general) are because of the way men are socialized and trained to be aggressive.

Also you saying that women are treated as equals 100 percent shows your views are locked into your white American position. Feminism isn't just an American thing, it's an important thing in a lot of other countries that don't have the same basic rights that you do for girls - social and legal.
Also, just because you come from a white middle-class background, doesn't mean that everyone has the same advantages of you. Sexism effects women of poverty and color a lot more than you, and just because you've never had to face it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

While I understand you have no ill intent and I agree with a lot of your ideas, I'm just really scared of America making a backturn in feminism and looking like the UK - where women almost always seen at fault in rape cases.
You should also thank you feminist friends for securing your right to birth control, which I know you enjoy a lot (as do I). In California birth control is really easy to get to, but in other states it's not the same at all.

Lynn (up until now, she has been simply explaining herself, which is completely fine, but now comes the crazy bitch again):
tl;dr

I glanced at the first paragraph, and no, the media does not effect me. I haven't watched TV or listened to radio in over a decade. The programs I do watch online mostly have strong female characters, such as Bones, for example.

I love how calling myself an anti-feminist comes out. People are going to be idiots no matter what label I choose, so meh.

Claudia:
lol @ believing the media does not effect you

Me (to Claudia):
For the record, I read everything you wrote. I used to feel the same way as Lynn, although less in your face. Then I found out more about feminism.

Lynn:
I know all about actual feminism. I'm not talking about that because most "feminists" are not about that.

Claudia:
Yeah, same here, i totally went through that phase (I also went through an atheist phase when i was in middle school, but logic and reason brought me back to religion - and even in a stronger way since I never gave it much strong though as a child). It's similar to how people read only the first two parts of Descartes's discourse on the method and believing they understand everything about Descartes and that he believes animals to be machines and for nothing to exist. You have to read the whole book to really understand.
And just bases feminism on what you heard about it from the side does not give you the real ability to judge it.

I also have to laugh at anyone who says they are not effected by the media just because they stopped watching tv. The media is far more than the screen of a tv, you can't forget the billboards outside, the radio, and the very internet we use. Also if you talk to anyone who does watch tv, the media has an effect on you through second hand.

Lynn (feeling attacked out of nowhere):
Claudia, if you talk about me / to me this way at the party there are going to be problems.

I have never insulted you or your beliefs, but you seem to think it's ok to be a massive bitch to me because I have different ideas than you.

Claudia:
No, you don't know all about actual feminism. You clearly stated that they do not study the effects of gender roles on males - which anyone who went to an introduction women study's course can tell you otherwise.

Talking about how most "feminist" are about, is the same as generalizing about how most "black" people act.
The truth is most feminist aren't vocal about who they are, most of them are average women who realize that not everything is so peachy (which you denied since you said we don't need feminism because women are equal to men).

Lynn:
weev asked for my opinions, I did not ask your your's. Apologize for "dissing" me, or stop directing comments toward me. Those are your options.

Claudia:
Why do you think everything is about you?
That message was directed towards marykae, and it's a general discussion.
Please stop being so defensive.

Lynn:
Now you're being passive aggressive.

Lynn:
MK, take me of EP, this kind of bullshit is why I left in the first place.

I also do not think I can go to the party after all, I'm not interested in being harassed.

Claudia:
How am I dissing you?
If you read my original comment I said that I agreed on a lot of points that you had. I just thought you were misinformed. I think you're seeing too much anger in my writings, that wasn't my intentions.

Lynn:
You dissed people who hold my opinions... how is that not dissing me?

Sasha (regarding her post about not asking for Claudia's opinions):
wtf? seriously Lynn, not everything everyone says is about you or directed at you. If you want to speak only to Weev and no one else, you should email him personally. This is a discussion group, we all jump in on conversations, that's how it works.

Me:
Lynn. You know I love you. But since you came back you have attacked several EP members, most notably Cari (dotti). I honestly am having trouble understanding why, and I try to stay out for the most part.

Here is the link to change your membership. I just hope that you can get there before one of the other mods does it for you.

http://groups.google.com/group/emailpartyelite/subscribe

Claudia:
Do you really think I'm going to randomly go up to you at a party and harass you?
Not, really. I didn't go out of my way in email party to harass you. And since I doubt you'd bring up subjects like this at a party in small chat, I don't see why I'd even get into a heavy conversation.

This is a discussion emailing list. We talk about what we ate, what shows we like, and sometimes we have amazing conversations by disagreeing with each other and learning. I didn't know that this was suppose to be a circle jerk where we agree with everyone all the time. I'm sorry.

Lynn:
This became wrong when you decided it was ok to start dissing me.

That is not a discussion.

I have never done that to you.

Claudia:
Please, I don't want you to get mad at me.
The other conversation you were talking about how parents were bad who drugged their children. Miss Dotti did not think of you as dissing her just because you disagreed with her.
I don't see how this is any different.

Lynn (WHERE SHE TALKS SHIT ON SASHA):
I didn't call her stupid, or tell her her thinking was flawed. I was being bitchy because she kept acting like I said something I didn't say.

I'm actually not mad at you, I was getting annoyed that you keep spouting off insulting things without asking me stuff or talking about things in a metered fashion. I more mad about Sasha (who I've disliked since I first met her and she went behind my back) and this other guy attacking me like it's their business.

Me:
Sasha did what now?

Lynn:
I was worried about you that one time, but I'm not a people person so I told Sasha to help me... but I went to go potty and she fucking started talking to you about it without me there.

Me:
That's not how I remember it. But I admit I have a shit memory.

But I had been becoming pretty close with Sasha by then, and I didn't see a whole lot of you. Even if that WAS what happened, I don't think it should be considered a betrayal.

Weev:
So what exact sort of say should men have in abortion?

Lynn:
can we discuss this tomorrow?

Rose:
LOL

I AM AT WORK PLEASE DON'T DISAGREE WITH MY INFLAMMATORY THINKING.

PS: I HAVE HATED ONE OF YOU SINCE I MET YOU.

Lynn:
Why can no one respect that some opinions need more than a small email to explain?

Rose:
no, see, the point is, don't start something you can't finish.

If I were to post "I hate black people in my neighborhood they steal I'm not racist" then god mad at people who discussed it, that would be RETARDED

Weev:
I don't know I'd really like to discuss this now.

I am pro-life. In that I explicitly mean I believe that abortion should be outlawed and surgeons that perform it should be sent to prison for a long time. I believe that a fetus is a living creature. My belief is intellectually coherent and based upon the compassion I feel for a young human life.

You have defended, in the past, the performance of abortions. Yet you seem to want to give men veto power over the abortion process, which essentially boils down to the worst of both possible systems-- male-dominated authoritarianism AND dead babies. I cannot possibly reconcile this in my head, and would like to hear your stance on it so that I can assume you are something other than a monster.

I'm not super into feminist literature but I've at least read the basics, Harriet Taylor, Dworkin, Zetkin, Kate Millett, Evelyn Reid, de Beauvoir. I'm pretty sure after hearing you talk that if you have any exposure to feminist ideology it is solely through the anime Revolutionary Girl Utena.

Lynn:
Except that's not what I did. I did not make a remark that was inflammatory.

Rose:
You honestly don't see how something you said could cause ire in other people?

Wow.

Russell:
oh no, saying that men should have veto power over abortions isn't
inflammatory at all

Lynn (accuses us of questioning her too much, note this, later she will accuse us of not questioning her enough):
This is my main beef with EP... Everything I say, no matter how simple is questioned and misunderstood, even my fucking comment about not eating cheese was questioned.

Claudia:
if i remember correctly rose was in informing you about how much cheese they really do put into every day product. she has a medical condition that made her aware of this very fact, and she was just nicely informing you of the realities.
if you were to have a similar medical condition to rose with cheese, or had to stop eating cheese for other health reasons, it would have been a very helpful fact.

Lynn:
You both told me I "didn't know it" but was eating cheese and sugar. I was irritated that I have to point out TWICE that I had already acknowledged that I was eating sugar and cheese present in other foods.

It just has been feeling like (especially you) have to question EVERYTHING I say, no matter how small it is.

Lynn:
I'm completely sick or repeating myself and being judged without being given the chance to correct a misunderstanding. If you all jump on something without asking if you got the whole picture, I am naturally going to get annoyed,

Lynn (at which point, she says she does not want to come to Rose's party):
I'm glad this happened before I partied with you people. I can't drink and relax around people I can't trust or respect.

Weev:
you think i'm going to get you drunk and stick it in your volunarily or something?

Claudia:
Oh gosh! Now I am insulted. You are judging me and saying that I am neither a trustful person and you do not respect me.
Trust me, I am a very respectful person that can be trusted never to touch another woman's volunarily, it stems from my feminist ideals.

Rose:
Jeez, sorry about the dairy thing. I'm paranoid about allergies, or I wouldn't have said anything.

Excuse me for fucking trying to be helpful. Talk about being defensive and taking offense to things that are not meant to be offensive.

Every single thing you are bitching about people doing here, you are doing.

Oh, wait, you haven't accused us of being hypocrites yet.

Me:
And on the serious side. I imagine that it's hard for people to relax around you too. Always thinking "If I say this, will Lynn feel personally attacked even though it's not meant that way?"

I will say, I never felt that way around you in the past. I don't know if something has changed, or it's just an internet thing where you can't hear the tone in anyone's voice, so you take it the wrong way. All I know is that a lot of ep members have recognized this in the past few days, independently, without threads like this to circle jerk each other.

You can leave here mad at everyone, I did provide you a link. And you can hate everyone forever, that's certainly up to you. But I hope that you will at least *consider* that you might be reading too much into things. Not the end of this conversation, because people are now probably like "fuck this bitch" and venting. But I mean like, the earlier part of this thread, and the thing with Cari, the cheese, the sugar. All of it. Really, all of it up until you were like "btw, I don't like Sasha."

(carry over from "I have never liked Sasha)

Sasha:

Whatever Lynn.

I'm so over you. I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you are so self centered.

You did not approach me with that like "let's do this together" you approached me like you didn't know what to do but thought something should be done. i decided to do something about a situation i was concerned with. i didn't care to ask your permission, because it WASN'T ABOUT YOU. it was about marykae. There was no malicious intention towards you. I wasn't doing anything to you. I was trying to help my friend.

and you didn't just "go potty" and then i swooped in. i think you are confused.

i didn't speak to her until much later when we were in my car alone.

Lynn:
Sasha, you're right, it was when you were in the car. It WAS wrong of you to address the matter without me, it was supposed to be a joint thing, to show her we cared about her well being, but you selfishly went and did it without me, so then I was both worried about MK AND wary of you possibly being manipulative.

MK is the only one who really knows what I am like in person. Ask her if I'm a bitch.

Me:
Lynn's awesome irl. It's true. Hardly recognizable as the same person you're talking to right now.

Sasha is one of the last people in the world to ever be manipulative/selfish ever. Trying to help a friend should not be considered a contest. Ever.

Lynn:
I didn't consider it a contest. It felt like she was making it into that. That's why I felt betrayed.

Lynn (wishes to grant us with her precense, irl):
Thanks.

If somehow you get them to believe it, I would still like to come to the party.

Me:
I think getting them to believe it is your job.

Start acting less like the uber paranoid victim that you have shown us on EP, and more like the Lynn I know irl.

One thing I learned dealing with friends online is to try to imagine the nicest, least bitchy way possible to read a line. And just assume they meant it that way.

Lynn:
They aren't reading my words the way I mean them either. So I guess it's not gonna happen.

Claudia:
If you say a general statement and some one mistakes the meaning as something else, you're allowed to correct them.
But you did no correction, you just accused them of attacking you.
You attacked the person and not the argument, it shows no progress in the discussion.

For the most part, everyone here is willing to take time to understand each other. I disagree with the views of at least half of EP, but I will take time to try and understand what their stance is and what they believe in (even if I don't agree with the logic).

I liked to think these discussion were lots of fun and a learning tool. Sometimes I've proven wrong, that my argument lacks foundation. This sometimes helps me learn how to create a better argument or just change my opinion in general.

We can't be mind readers. I'm not always going to be able to understand exactly what you meant, no one in the world is. This doesn't mean that it is our fault or lack of effort that we can't be mind readers.

Lynn:
You can act like I'm the only one who's reading things wrong here, but that's not the truth.

Me:
If everyone is reading your words wrong, then it's a communication issue that is likely on your side.

I once pissed off all of EP (long ago, a nearly completely different crowd). Someone else came along, and said EXACTLY what I was trying to say, and had been arguing for hours, and everyone agreed with him.

That was a big communication lesson for me.

Claudia:
No, I'm not.
I clearly wrote that we -ALL- have the flaw of misunderstanding people.

Now I'm starting to believe this whole thing is not about miscommunication but more with you thinking everything is a personal attack.

Lynn:
So your argument is that my writing sucks? When does the willingness to understanding part come in?

HONESTLY I never have this problem anywhere else (well, unless I'm trolling purposefully) lol.

Claudia:
Yeah, and I have a few examples of misreading people's tones in EP. but after snapping I owned up to it and apologized and admitted my mistake.

the best thing you can take from this situation is learn, and realize that people do like you and do value your input - otherwise we wouldn't bother talking to you.

Lynn (Lynn posted this a long time ago, before she had a different conversation nwith Claudia, but google groups posted it late):
Also, you ignored my final sentence, so I am no longer speaking to you. Just letting you know.

Lynn:

"Why are you trying to spin everything into a personal attack against you? "

I ended my original comment with a statement that clearly said that I probably did not write everything detailed enough, and said I welcomed questions about statements so I could explain in more detail later.

That was my way of dealing with the contant misunderstanding. I addressed it and offered to discuss this at my own pace since weev asked me to give my views. You call ignored this and attacked me.

Is this becoming clear enough yet? This is why I am upset.

accusing me of "spinning" I read as insulting/condescending.

Lynn:
I ended my original comment with a statement that clearly said that I probably did not write everything detailed enough, and said I welcomed questions about statements so I could explain in more detail later.

That was my way of dealing with the contant misunderstanding. I addressed it and offered to discuss this at my own pace since weev asked me to give my views. You call ignored this and attacked me.

Is this becoming clear enough yet? This is why I am upset.

Weev:
you need
1) a thicker skin.
2) to take things less seriously. i lol at all lols
3) a much greater appreciation for glorious and hilarious dongs. they are funny. LOL DONGS.
4) to not talk shit on sasha. she is like my only black acquaintance and i need her to help me pretend that i'm not racist.
5) to get rid of your victim complex

Lynn:
I have a very thick skin actually. I didn't think I needed to around "friends" tho... which was my mistake.
I take being attacked and misunderstood seriously by "friends"
I love dongs
I'm not talking shit on sasha, I'm telling her about something she DID that hurt me, because I thought she was my "friend"
I don;t have a victim complex... but when "friends" treat me badly, I get hurt

Notice the theme here? I never act this way on LJ or when I chatted in bantown because those people are not my friends.

SO SORRY for treating friends more special than strangers. If you think a stranger could get to me this way, you are mistaken.

Claudia:
Okay, I give up trying to understand you lynn.
You have an amazing victim complex that I will never understand. I accepted the fact that I did not understand your whole message, and you acted like I was saying it was all your fault when that wasn't the case - both of us played a part in that.
You seem to make it clear that you'll never take anything I write in a non-threatening way, and that means we can never have a reasonable discussion. That was your doing to stop any way from us understanding each other.

I really hope that some day you learn not to see any non-praising opinion as a personal attack from you. I'm sorry that you're not able to separate discussions of opinions from people themselves.

Lynn:
amazing that you could decide that without hanging out with me in person or getting to know beyond a couple of hot button convos.

Weev:
hugs. chill out. it is just the internet.

Lynn (people she cares about):
No, it's not just the internet. That's my point. These are people I care about and people I thought I was going to meet soon and make new friends.

Claudia:
i think you're not use to having friends disagree with you.

having friends that didn't grow up in a white middle class household have made my views on feminism even stronger because they don't have the same privileges as you do. they face real sexism and it's a bit insulting to say that women are treated as equals in the united states. not everyone has the privilege to have the same background as you, so don't base the whole country on that.
if anything, i have more reason to get upset with some one that runs around saying misinformed opinions like you. but i was smart enough to realize it wasn't a personal attack, that either i was understanding you wrong or that you were misinformed and i wanted to see if i could change your opinion. that's not a bad thing. it's called learning.

Lynn:
I get extremely frustrated when people I care about misunderstand me and make assumptions about me.

I TOTALLY tweeted about this very subject to marykae a few days ago when she said basically the same thing

Lynn decides she wants to make up, which, if done correctly, was still doable. No one would get over the shit about Sasha, but still:

Guys... this is what I said before the issues happened:

"I have to get back to business now, so I am sure I left out something important, and this view is not my complete and polished view. So just give me a little benifit of the doubt and ask me specific questions if something strikes you as off because I very well may have said it wrong and will need to revise, explain, or expound."

Please explain to me now why it was ignored... because I still feel like I'm being blamed.

I'd be happy if I could take back the part where I said I didn't want to see all your mugs at the party.

But Rose is not reading this thread anymore... so.

Lynn:
I'm still holding that I never said anything inflammatory or hateful.

I'm also still waiting for someone to say "Yes, you asked for a chance to add details if we needed them, but we ignored that request"

Rose:
Yes, you asked for a chance to add details if we needed them, but we ignored that request.

Welcome to Email Party.

Also, please note, while you may be only "talking" to one person, everyone else here is reading it, and they are welcome to respond, as it is a discussion group. If you do not wish anyone to respond except the person to whom you are talking, take it off group.

"Feminist movement" (or whatever it's being called) are no longer searching for equality or standards for women in relation to men.

is inflammatory to the people in EP who are feminists.

Lynn the feminist:

I welcome discussion with me (stop assuming I don't!!), but when I asked for the condition that I be allowed to explain something that is being misunderstood I am allowed to be angry about the disrespect.

The part you quoted is a perfect example of where people should have asked me to explain. If you have not seen the misandric, militant, better-than-men type of feminist that has cropped up in recent times, I'm shocked. By definition I AM A FEMINIST (instead of equalist I used the term anti-feminist because it does what I intended it to do... it caught someone's ear (weevs) and he asked me about it, saying I'm an equalist is not proactive enough). But too many feminists have got overboard and made it into something it wasn't supposed to be.

If anyone here is a castrating man hater, than GOOD I'm glad to offend them with logic. I assumed everyone here was either the same type of "feminist" I am, or someone who doesn't care enough about the topic to label themselves.

I would have gladly explained all of this had someone asked me like I requested, instead of making assumptions and attacking me.

Me:

Except this isn't a group of feminists on the internet. You want to be treated differently here than you do on the rest of the internet, because we're irl friends, or have the potential to be. Then don't use the same tactics on us that you use on e-strangers.

Lynn who suddenly forgets that she said "I am anti-feminist" supposedly just to get a reaction

I wasn't treating anyone that way, that is your mistaken assumption.

Weev asked me specifically what my views were and I answered him. I noted that I would explain any details or questions later. Instead of treating me like a friend, a bunch of people attacked me with their wrong assumptions.

I'm tired of repeating myself.

Claudia:

Wait, when did we ever not give you the ability to respond? It's not like we froze your emails.

And sure, we have all seen better-than-men type of feminist. but i've also seen better-than-women type of men a lot more. so what's your point?
i was just saying that you have the wrong idea of feminism and it's not good to make such generalizations about people, most of all when the generalizations don't apply to the majority.

Lynn:

You made assumptions right away and made a massive reply that was condecending (you accused my opinion of being a phase or whatever without even making sure you understood my side). the only person who respected what I requested was weev. He asked me a question, waited for the reply, then asked another one calmly.

THATS WHAT I WANTED.

Lynn (can I COME TO PARTY PLEASE)

I was hoping they would friggin get the point already so I could find out if I can salvage my invitation to go to the party and meet some of these fuckers. But no one seems to be up for admitting they had a hand in the shitiness that went down.

Your response this time was very unlike the good stubborn atheists discussion we had.

Claudia:

Also, lynn, you admitted to not being an anti-feminist, just using the label for attention grabbing.
that's called trolling, and if you get flamed for trolling or people assume something of an unrepresentative label you gave yourself... well, they aren't at fault, because you gave the title to yourself.

Lynn:

You got it wrong again. Reread what I said.

Rose:

I had a hand in the shittiness that went down.

Now I need to wash it.

With bleach, right?

Hey, Scott, you know about fisting, right? How do I get shit out from under my fingernails?

Lynn(PLEASE LET ME COME TO YOUR PARTY)

Ok cool, sorry I didn't ask you why you felt I said something inflammatory in the right way sooner.

can I come to yo party... I already bought the booze and lollipops... :(

(some random chatter about kitkats and otehr candy)

Lynn (CAN I COME PARTY)

If rose says I'm still invited, I'll bring you kitkats.

Lynn (the very next post)

??????? :p

So the weekend was pretty peaceful. On twitter Lynn asked a couple more times if she could come to the party, but Rose was no longer following her twitter.

Monday, I am sitting at work where I cn not check email except a few times a day, but I still see twitter and I see Cari complaining about cunts on EP or something. I knew immediately Lynn was up to something.

Lynn has deleted her tweets from that day, probably because she knows how bad it makes her look.

Fortunately, I still have them. I emailed them to some friends offlist to mock Lynn. I swear to you I am not making this up. She actually tweeted this shit.

Mind, this was before I even saw Monday's EP, and I also didn't have a lot of time on the internet. (remember @marykae is Lynn, and @natsukigirl is me, typing @ the other person)

@marykae can you remove me from EP already? I'm not going to do it myself. You made me come back so you can remove me. THANKS 27 minutes ago from web in reply to marykae

@natsukigirl No. I really can't. I'm at workand won't waste my breaks on stupid shit drama. 03:19 PM October 13, 2008 from Twitter Line in reply to natsukigirl
@natsukigirl also, I didn't amkke you come back. I asked @ rose if we should add you again and YOU answered "yes, lol" 03:23 PM October 13, 2008
@natsukigirl also, I didn't amkke you come back. I asked @ rose if we should add you again and YOU answered "yes, lol" 03:23 PM October 13, 2008 from TwitterBar in reply to natsukigirl

@marykae I said yes because I thought you were still a friend and wanted to see me. I LEFT before because of drama. So fuck you. 18 minutes ago from web in reply to marykae
@marykae I seriously have never liked many of the people you choose to hang out with, it's part of the reason I didn't come to stuff. 16 minutes ago from web in reply to marykae

@natsukigirl I even wanted to give you a chance after what you said about Sasha. So, you know what, consider your bridge burned. 03:28 PM October 13, 2008 from TwitterBar in reply to natsukigirl
@natsukigirl Yeah. You practically begged to go to teh party and be friends with Weev again, but whatever. 03:30 PM October 13, 2008 from TwitterBar in reply to natsukigirl

@marykae no, I'm really not being childish. THEY are, and you support them. 15 minutes ago from web in reply to marykae
@marykae ok, that comment about begging to be friends with weev is an out right lie. You are lame. MIKE wants to see him, NOT ME. 10 minutes ago from web in reply to marykae

@natsukigirl I am only following you until my break in a few when I stop. So if you want to keep burnign, go for it. You have ten minute ... ... 03:31 PM October 13, 2008 from Twitter Line in reply to natsukigirl

Please keep in mind, dear readers, that Lynn has a history with being obsessed with Weev.

I don't know if what he says about her trying to have sex with him right in front of his ex is true or not, but the fact that every time she has imed me in the recent past it has been about Weev.

She told me I was a bad friend to let Claudia date Weev. One day she imed me "OMG I THINK I SAW CLAUDIA AND WEEV" or something (I can back it up if you ask, it's just this post is already long enough). And one of the conversations we had in twitter was ALL about whether or not Weev would be at teh party. I can back that up, unless she sees this and deletes it, but I can back my end up for sure if you ask.

SO when I finally do read email party Monday, here are some tidbits.

Lynn discusses losing her virginity. I feel like I might be posting too much personal shit if I post her story outside of EP, even though she is crazy, I try to keep shit meant to be private, as private. But it involved the pull out method.

Rose:
Pull out method. hahahah

Lynn:
I swear by it, it's been my only method for the past seven years, and I've never been preggers.

Rose:
yeah, it's not a very good method, in general. either your plumbing sucks, or you've been very very lucky.

Lynn (note, I am leaving off some more personal shit from Lynn, but I want to show the friendly nature of this conversation, so i am posting the non-too-personal)
Yep, lol.

Claudia:
Eh... the pull-out method can be 95 percent effective if you know how to do it right and aren't dealing with a retarded boy who doesn't try to push his limits.

there was a community of people with 500 people at it's peak point (normally with 300) that lived in upstate new york after the civil war.
they all had sex with each other (hetero only) and before the young boys were allowed to have sex with any of the other women, they first had to go through sex lessons with the post-menopausal women who taught them how to effectively use the pull out method (since there was no other real birth control available).
everyone ended up having lots of sex, and no one but a select few could have babies (like 5 kids born each year, max). and even though pull out method was their only method, they ended up only having one or two unplanned births each year out of the 300-500 people they had.

it's similar to birth control pills. the pill is over 99 percent effective, the flaw falls on people not realizing certain medications can harm the effectiveness or forgetting the pill for several days.

Rose:
for the very very few people who aren't retarded it might be semi-okay, but I wouldn't recommend it to people

Claudia:
hahaha, true.
i don't recommend telling teenagers that the pull out method can be pretty effective. god knows how many dumbass young boys there are.

i think lynn was just saved by the fact that she knew the peens going into her vag and they realized they didn't want to have to pay child support because she would go after them if she did have a kid.

Lynn (what?)
Claudia, I'm not interested in having to sift through your bullshit today. thanks.

Claudia:
... wait what?
because i commented that you have sex with boys that don't want you to get pregnant and therefore don't push their limits and risk you getting pregnant?

how is that negative at all?

Lynn:
You made a racist comment about my ex, and you claimed I was the type to hound men for child support rather than start a family.

How could you have ment those things in a good way?

Cari:
Lynn, what the heck is your problem now? Claudia hasn't said a single negative thing against you. She supported your pull out method. Get over yourself.

Lynn (note, Claudia did make some not horribly offensive (for once) Jew joke in another thread):
She made a racist comment and directly insulted my character, learn to read.

Rose:

"i think lynn was just saved by the fact that she knew the peens going into her vag and they realized they didn't want to have to pay child support because she would go after them if she did have a kid."

Let's break this down:

"she knew the peens going into her vag" = Lynn did not whore it up. This is usually considered a compliment
"they realized they didn't want to have to pay child support because she would go after them if she did have a kid" = Lynn fucked smart guys. Lynn would be responsible if she did get pregnant.

How is this bullshit? Are you a whore who fucks dumb guys and wuld dumpster a baby if you got knocked up? That's the only way I could see this as being bullshit.

Claudia:
what?
first of all, this is EP. i make racist comments about ALL jews, including the jews in this group, they are a fucking JOKE.

second of all, I think you're reading way too much into my comments. i would assume that you didn't want kids with any of your boyfriends besides the current boy, since you didn't marry them. in regards of you getting child support from those guys, i would assume that you would try to get them to support your children if they got your pregnant. how is that hounding a man for child support? that is being a responsible women by knowing which man is the father of their child and being able to get child support from him.

Lynn:
she said I caught jew disease.

also, I am allowed to be insulted by the child support comment. Just because you'd take it as a compliment does not mean everyone would.

Claudia:
i think rose summed it down better than i could
it wasn't meant to be insulting
if you saw where it put it to contrast with, it was saying that the pull out method works for you because you're smart as far as reproductive health and responsible, unlike teenage boys

sure, you have the right to be insulted, but that's just foolish.

Rose:
So, you think that someone saying you would be responsible if you happened to get pregnant is an *insult*? Wow.

Also, jew disease? You took that as a serious insult?

Okay, fuck this. You, clearly, overreact about dumb shit. I don't want to deal with that. You've been asking if you are still invited to my party, and I've been avoiding the question, but this "omg I'm being attacked" bullshit just made up my mind. I don't want this kind of lame ass middle school martyr drama in my house. Take your lolipops and attempts at being the victim elsewhere. I don't want you or your drama at my Halloween party.

Lynn (I don't want to go to your party, it's stupid)
You're kidding right? I'm only on EP and only was going to the party because MK ASKED ME TO. Do you seriously think I care about your party? I already have two other events I can attend. Beleive me, I'm not upset over it. Plus I already took the hint when you ignored my question, so not big news.

Cari:
HELLO EVERY TALKS RACIST ON EP, GET OVER IT!

Lynn:
Oh, so fake insults are ok then? Good.

You're a fat fuck. Oh wait, JUST KIDDING.

Rose (says something so true)
I just wanted to make it clear.

You're pretty much not welcome on EP, either, but no one cares enough to actually ban you, because, well, it's funny to watch you freak out over dumb shit.

We're pretty much just mocking you behind the scenes, questioning your sanity, and wondering why you haven't quit already.

Lynn:
I already did quit, you blind joke of a woman, marykae added me back.

Rose:
ad hominem

Lynn (attacks yet another friend of mine personally)
You seem to be confused about fallacys, LOL moron

Poony:
Rose is one of the most intelligent women I know. This shit is bananas.

Rose:
I learned a long time ago that some people want to remain ignorant.

How do you argue against someone who claims vehemently that the sky is purple?

You can't.

If you don't know the definition of words, you probably won't react well to being educated.

KEVIN:

Lynn shrugged while fingering the buildup around her vaginal cavity. "I am not broken. Perhaps you are infertile?" she said to her frustrated lover, who was leaning off the edge of the bed. She flicked a bit of genital mold at him playfully.
"We've been trying three months, Lynn. It's not me. I got tested. Why don't you?"
"It's an invasion of privacy," she shot back.
"Look, Lynn, whenever I pull out I got this black tar on my cock. You know when you work real hard in the sun for several hours, and you rub your hands together and this gunk that looks like eraser forms up? That's what my dick looks like -- no, don't interrupt - that's what my dick looks like when it comes out of your vagina."
Lynn paused in hurt.
"Go back to Nihon. I'll find someone else to give me a child. Maybe a Korean would do it better?"
The Japanese boy looked at her, then stormed out while vigorously washing the bacon bits off his penis.

Lynn

Well she got it wrong... it's only ad hominem if I'm tryingto use the insult as proof of something. I mere added the insult for flavor, not function.

She's a dumb bitch.

Cari:
HELL YEAH! I am fat. And I am okay with that. Wanna know why? Because I GET LAID ON A REGULAR BASIS! I have three wonderful kids with the world's hottest man, and he LOVES my fat ass. SUCK IT!

Lynn:
Wait, so why do I care that you have kids and get laid? lol you're still terribly ugly.

Rose:

"it's only ad hominem if I'm tryingto use the insult as proof of something"

False. Try again.

Claudia:
rose, please understand that intro logic classes are too hard for some people

Weev:
they should just make an anime about it ok

Cari:
Honey, I might not be gloriously beautiful on the outside, but I'm no where near as ugly as you are on the inside. You think you're SO much better than anyone else, but the truth is, you only think that because you spend half your waking moments trying to drag people down in the mud. You seriously have issues.

I certainly hope you ARE infertile, because any child raised by you is going to need more therapy than anyone I currently know, and I work in the Mental Health industry.

Your mom shouldn't have wasted her time doping you with ritalin. What you really need is a combo dose of xanax and klonopin, a Huge Me jacket, and a nice white room.

Lynn:
merely insulting someone in a debate is not ad hominem, deny it all you want, you are wrong.

Claudia:
your comment basically gave the definition of it

Rose:
Claudia, clearly she is smarter than is. If she keeps repeating it, it must be true.

Claudia:
her special degree in manga storage puts her above us :/

Lynn (in a private email to me):
saw the comment about adding me to emails. I'm marking all as spam, have fun!!

Me (my last email ever to Lynn)
I wasn't even around for that. I was barely around all day. I wasn't part of this except to tell you on twitter that I was too busy to do moderator shit while at work, and to be then told "fuck you."

I understand misunderstandings, and being overly defensive. Especially coming in to EP again, you probably thought Claudia and Weev would have it in for you. Maybe others.

But once you started in on Sasha, and then on all the rest of my friends, that was just ugly and hateful.

I can't ever have anything to do with you again after that. You treated people that I care about completely shamefully, and you still probably think you're the victim. I can't help you with that.

I never realized that you were that kind of person. A little crazy? Yeah. a little misunderstood/

misunderstanding? Sure. A sometimes internet troll? You bet.

But these are real people to me and you treated them like ass.

I am sad it turned out this way, because I used to like you a lot. But right now I think you're completely disgusting, and like Cari said, ugly inside.

Please don't reply to this, I am completely done with you.

If you do reply, I will just forward it to email party and we'll continue to mock you.

Lynn's reply (fwd'd to ep, as promised)
Stop talking to me, I dumped you hours ago, totally not interested in your bait.

And that's it. Lynn lost her shit.

This may be tl;dr, but it's good to have as a reference for us.